Hello. Time to get this feedback section going!
After a round of testing the class, I have come up with conclusions about this 5 level class
Context : max level set to 11
What I went for : 3/3/5 Rogue Bard Arcane trickster.
Now, I'm bad at wording my opinion, so please bear with me.
Before being able to test it myself, I had concern about Arcane trickster being both a discounted rogue and a discounted caster, and that unlike in mathematics, in the case of Arcane Trickster 50%+50% does not equal 100%.
Let's see how much of that is true, or false.
First, we'll see the options that I thought about. I might've missed some. I'm not considering anything other than full levels in Arcane trickster because the main gimmick of Trickster is given at lv5
/ ! \ Three rogues levels are mandatory to reach the +2d6 sneak condition to pick Trickster levels
Class1/class2/class3 - LevelsClass1/LevelsClass2/LevelsClass3
Rogue/Bard/ Trickster - 10/3/5
Bard/Rogue/Trickster - 10/3/5
Wizard/Rogue/Trickster - 10/3/5
Sorc/Rogue/Trickster - 10/3/5
Did I miss anything? Requirements states the need to be able to cast Mage hands. I did not check Warlock's spells list, and am too lazy to do it rn
My opinion is that you have to get some DEX so your ranged touch attacks will have a good chance to land. Otherwise your effectiveness as an arcane trickster is questionable
That's why my guess for the "best" (I'm talking more about mechanics than RP here obviously) was Bard/rogue/Trickster. Crossbow or weapon finesse + melee. You have spells and buffs, you have a song, you have sneaks.
And yet, 10 lv bards only gets you one 4th circle spell, you're missing on some big stuff, including the later bard bonuses from song.
Same arguments goes for Sorc Wiz and Rogue, taking only 10 levels of these classes for a tradeoff of :
- 2d6 sneak,
- a 30 feet range pickpocket/lock pick
- a 30 feet ranged touch attack triggering sneak attack on spell, 6x a day
- a rogue bonus feat
is a bit underwhelming. Except for rogue, but if you're taking 10 levels of rogue and 5 of trickster, that means 3levels of a caster class, and at this point are you really an arcane trickster if all you do is use the force needle cantrip and cast a few circle 1 spell? Even if you do, you'd have 7d6 sneak atk dices, only 5 of which would apply to your 1d4+1 cantrip. You're better off using a weapon at that point.
For casters, you'd probably be more relevant given the wider selection of spells. Yet, 10lv of Wiz/Sorc gets you 5th circle spells and nothing more, if I understood correctly the synergy between Arcane trickster and caster classes. So you have a wider spell selection, but less AB on your ranged touches, and your BAB being 1/2 means you're probably not going to do anything other than casting spells.
My conclusion is that the Arcane trickster, based on the tiny bit that I managed to test, is lacking. The tradeoffs are not very good/special, and the main gimmick is limited in use. You'd simply be way better off as a pure rogue/bard/Wiz/sorc than trying to fit Arcane trickster levels.
Again, I know RP is to be considered, but to me RP and mechanics have a relatively identical importance. Sure, nobody else but an Arcane trickster can open a door 30ft away, but let's be real. Everyone can walk 30 feet and open the door. And... once you've opened the door that's 30ft away, you might want to walk over to that door you opened at a distance.
I don't know what it needs to be relevant. Perhaps it's relevant already and I'm just missing out on some data and testing.
One thing is for sure, at equal levels (11 in total), it was not as relevant as that guy with three 17AB zombie summons
After a round of testing the class, I have come up with conclusions about this 5 level class
Context : max level set to 11
What I went for : 3/3/5 Rogue Bard Arcane trickster.
Now, I'm bad at wording my opinion, so please bear with me.
Before being able to test it myself, I had concern about Arcane trickster being both a discounted rogue and a discounted caster, and that unlike in mathematics, in the case of Arcane Trickster 50%+50% does not equal 100%.
Let's see how much of that is true, or false.
First, we'll see the options that I thought about. I might've missed some. I'm not considering anything other than full levels in Arcane trickster because the main gimmick of Trickster is given at lv5
/ ! \ Three rogues levels are mandatory to reach the +2d6 sneak condition to pick Trickster levels
Class1/class2/class3 - LevelsClass1/LevelsClass2/LevelsClass3
Rogue/Bard/ Trickster - 10/3/5
Bard/Rogue/Trickster - 10/3/5
Wizard/Rogue/Trickster - 10/3/5
Sorc/Rogue/Trickster - 10/3/5
Did I miss anything? Requirements states the need to be able to cast Mage hands. I did not check Warlock's spells list, and am too lazy to do it rn
My opinion is that you have to get some DEX so your ranged touch attacks will have a good chance to land. Otherwise your effectiveness as an arcane trickster is questionable
That's why my guess for the "best" (I'm talking more about mechanics than RP here obviously) was Bard/rogue/Trickster. Crossbow or weapon finesse + melee. You have spells and buffs, you have a song, you have sneaks.
And yet, 10 lv bards only gets you one 4th circle spell, you're missing on some big stuff, including the later bard bonuses from song.
Same arguments goes for Sorc Wiz and Rogue, taking only 10 levels of these classes for a tradeoff of :
- 2d6 sneak,
- a 30 feet range pickpocket/lock pick
- a 30 feet ranged touch attack triggering sneak attack on spell, 6x a day
- a rogue bonus feat
is a bit underwhelming. Except for rogue, but if you're taking 10 levels of rogue and 5 of trickster, that means 3levels of a caster class, and at this point are you really an arcane trickster if all you do is use the force needle cantrip and cast a few circle 1 spell? Even if you do, you'd have 7d6 sneak atk dices, only 5 of which would apply to your 1d4+1 cantrip. You're better off using a weapon at that point.
For casters, you'd probably be more relevant given the wider selection of spells. Yet, 10lv of Wiz/Sorc gets you 5th circle spells and nothing more, if I understood correctly the synergy between Arcane trickster and caster classes. So you have a wider spell selection, but less AB on your ranged touches, and your BAB being 1/2 means you're probably not going to do anything other than casting spells.
My conclusion is that the Arcane trickster, based on the tiny bit that I managed to test, is lacking. The tradeoffs are not very good/special, and the main gimmick is limited in use. You'd simply be way better off as a pure rogue/bard/Wiz/sorc than trying to fit Arcane trickster levels.
Again, I know RP is to be considered, but to me RP and mechanics have a relatively identical importance. Sure, nobody else but an Arcane trickster can open a door 30ft away, but let's be real. Everyone can walk 30 feet and open the door. And... once you've opened the door that's 30ft away, you might want to walk over to that door you opened at a distance.
I don't know what it needs to be relevant. Perhaps it's relevant already and I'm just missing out on some data and testing.
One thing is for sure, at equal levels (11 in total), it was not as relevant as that guy with three 17AB zombie summons
