Need more IC positives in the region

[Josh]

Again, as Kameroth said, theyve not failed to find reasons for their character to be involved. I think its a little needlessly argumentative to repeatedly state reasons why the server might not for them! The original conversation was just about how much worse Murann is compared to some very nearby city-states/regions, and I still stand by that. Yes, most of Faerun is in a state of disrepair, war, poverty, et cetera- but Murann seems to be the worst of ALL of this, and they lack many if not all of the upsides that adventurers might feel called to. Most of the server are playing foreigners and sellswords, and without the implicit desire to stay within Amn due to being a local, it really is just beginning to present itself as one of the worst places to find work.

The reason to stay is as I've explained. A sellsword is there to sell their sword, and an adventurer is there similarly. It's dangerous, and it yields good coin. It's not a bad place to find work. If you read what I wrote instead of calling in the Discord clown car, you'd know that.

The regions a mess, and its full of danger, and that means coin. A competent sellsword, in one dungeon, can cover all licences with plenty left to line his/her pockets. You might not be liked, but youre still valuable, and its shown.

As for reasons for a half-elf to remain in / around Murann, I actually have some input on half-elves on the server. As it stands, theyre not even allowed to wear elven hairstyles, theyre not allowed to learn Elvish at all, and Ive heard that theyre mechanically barred from entering villages deeper into the Wealdath. It seems like theyre being barred from most of their elven heritage. If theyre not allowed to mingle with the elves past what a Conclave human is allowed, and theyre discriminated against harshly within Murann... I cant see one really having deep enough familial/cultural ties with the Wealdath to keep them rooted in the area. Theyre just second-rate humans as it currently stands.

The greater part of the half-elf is the human part. They are a dilution of both concepts. The difficulty is not being truly a part of either world.

I dont think that youre listening to anybody that has posted in here when you are repeatedly hounding this point. Especially when youre acting so combative about it.

I love teaching people how to RP. I can teach you as well, if you'd like. :3

He has already said that his character works in the setting and that he himself is not asking for reasons to stay in Murann, but this conversation is for the sake of later characters and for other players as well. You are approaching this with an extremely limited view.

I'm offering help with those later characters, being the titan of roleplay that I am.

Dude, Im sorry but I just dont think youre actually approaching this conversation properly.

I've approached it in earnest, and with my full heart.

Im honestly not sure if youre intentionally missing the point entirely, or not - I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume its not intentional, but it seems pretty intentional

I think the intention matters more than the interpretation and don’t really buy into the death of the author shtick. Read what I've wrote, and in response to what's written. You'll understand if you look at the context.

 

[Ami]

The reason to stay is as Ive explained. A sellsword is there to sell their sword, and an adventurer is there similarly. Its dangerous, and it yields good coin. Its not a bad place to find work. If you read what I wrote instead of calling in the Discord clown car, youd know that.





The greater part of the half-elf is the human part. They are a dilution of both concepts. The difficulty is not being truly a part of either world.



I love teaching people how to RP. I can teach you as well, if youd like. :3



Im offering help with those later characters, being the titan of roleplay that I am.



Ive approached it in earnest, and with my full heart.



I think the intention matters more than the interpretation and don’t really buy into the death of the author shtick. Read what Ive wrote, and in response to whats written. Youll understand if you look at the context.

People came in here with genuine concerns and thoughts on things, and you rolled up deciding to be needlessly facetious, combative and just overall conducting yourself in a way that isn't really becoming of someone who's trying to have a genuine discussion on the topic - it says more about you than it does anyone else, here.

 

[Josh]

People came in here with genuine concerns and thoughts on things, and you rolled up deciding to be needlessly facetious, combative and just overall conducting yourself in a way that isnt really becoming of someone whos trying to have a genuine discussion on the topic - it says more about you than it does anyone else, here.

I've come in telling them their concerns aren't well-founded, and have gone point by point explaining that. My posts have been tepid at best and hardly flippant. Of course, if you kick down someone's doors and accuse them of something they don't see themselves as, they'll tell you to take a hike - if you start something with a confrontation, it will end in the same. (The Discord clown car being that.)

 

[TwistyShape]

I think this conversation is getting somewhat off-topic so in an attempt to help I'm going to potentially show some ignorance as to the topic:

I thought the reason we couldn't just leave to the north was because we were trapped. Amn is desolate now and fraught with danger. We can't leave the South because the borders are locked, and ships aren't allowed to come and go? I would love more 'carrot' scenarios, but I do think they are going to somewhat boil down to the players more than the world. The downside is that the server is still ramping up, so it may not be long-lived carrots but, as previously mentioned, the Jamboree! There are plenty of bards, and yet I rarely see bards actually performing. I reiterate that I think there is plenty of room for carrots; we just need people to be motivated and driven to create it.

 

[Combat Wombat]

I’d just like to point out that you do have the option of playing on more upbeat and ICily tolerant servers.

 

[KiTTY]

This isn't about your character specifically or what motivation you can create for them. It affects them, yes, but it affects the wider NPC population and is ultimately about immersion in this fictional world.

This is a region where a significant portion of the population comes from and continues to come from elsewhere. A hundred thousand people fled Athkatla in anticipation of the Winter Horde, with most going north or east. With the Iron Fleet active in the region, Murann itself could be next. People have plenty of motivation to be fleeing Murann in droves, especially eastward and southward. What keeps people coming and staying, when there's not enough food for everyone, infrastructure is falling apart at the seams, and distrust towards even fellow Amnians but especially foreigners is at an all-time high?

The region remains extremely classist, where anyone not from Amn/Tethyr is a serf, so the few foreign traders that manage to get through to bring much needed trade goods have few rights and are not likely treated well. A foreign trader could facilitate the import of silk, cocoa, steel, etc, get exploited because of their social status, and then not even be allowed to purchase their own wares. Why would they continue to come?

Mages are in a precarious place with far harsher laws, even though the persecution hasn't even properly begun yet. With the Cowled Wizards gone, there's no clear path for mages to gain political power, so almost everyone will stay a pariah. What's keeping mages in Murann and the Alchemists' Guild, when every law-abiding one is already on a government list, and there's pressure for the law to get even harsher? The Guild doesn't seem to need them that much, anyway, with the pivot to science being responsible for its success and doubtless causing friction with its magic wing. How will there believably be any mages left to persecute, by the time the staff is ready to ramp things up with the Palestone Knights?

Clerics and paladins are in an awkward place in that they have higher social status, but attitudes towards and laws on spellcasting mean they suffer similar dangers as mages. It stands to reason that divine spellcasters have made (and will continue to make) mistakes with spellcasting and end up on the chopping block. How many members would churches tolerate losing this way until they consider pulling missions back from the region? There are plenty of other nearby regions that could use the help. Orcish and monstrous hordes are threatening the entire Sword Coast, so the Winter Horde doesn't seem like a uniquely pressing threat to justify putting up with pointless losses.

PCs will come and stay. What about the NPC masses?

On the other hand, let me mention where things I feel are very well-balanced. The Wealdath already has world-level significance to draw in people from all over the Realms. The combination of the Scar, the simmering conflict with humans, the decimated tribes, and existing monstrous threats creates suitably high stakes that would fuel a wide range of reasons to visit without necessarily favouring any alignment. It's still grimdark, in some ways better than Murann and in some ways worse, but the suffering feels like something characters from diverse backgrounds would believably put up with for a long time even by elven standards.

 

[Josh]

This isnt about your character specifically or what motivation you can create for them. It affects them, yes, but it affects the wider NPC population and is ultimately about immersion in this fictional world.

This is a region where a significant portion of the population comes from and continues to come from elsewhere. A hundred thousand people fled Athkatla in anticipation of the Winter Horde, with most going north or east. With the Iron Fleet active in the region, Murann itself could be next. People have plenty of motivation to be fleeing Murann in droves, especially eastward and southward. What keeps people coming and staying, when theres not enough food for everyone, infrastructure is falling apart at the seams, and distrust towards even fellow Amnians but especially foreigners is at an all-time high?

The region remains extremely classist, where anyone not from Amn/Tethyr is a serf, so the few foreign traders that manage to get through to bring much needed trade goods have few rights and are not likely treated well. A foreign trader could facilitate the import of silk, cocoa, steel, etc, get exploited because of their social status, and then not even be allowed to purchase their own wares. Why would they continue to come?

Mages are in a precarious place with far harsher laws, even though the persecution hasnt even properly begun yet. With the Cowled Wizards gone, theres no clear path for mages to gain political power, so almost everyone will stay a pariah. Whats keeping mages in Murann and the Alchemists Guild, when every law-abiding one is already on a government list, and theres pressure for the law to get even harsher? The Guild doesnt seem to need them that much, anyway, with the pivot to science being responsible for its success and doubtless causing friction with its magic wing. How will there believably be any mages left to persecute, by the time the staff is ready to ramp things up with the Palestone Knights?

Murann isn't a place people choose; it's where they're trapped. The narrative introduction confirms that while Athkatla's collapse sent refugees fleeing, the Iron Fleet's blockade and dangerous overland routes leave Murann as the only viable shelter. Food shortages and xenophobia don't break immersion; they reflect the reality of crisis zones, where desperate people endure oppression because alternatives are worse and likely mean DEATH. Traders stay for wartime profits, mages cling to the Guild for survival, adventurers and sellswords have it reasonably good if they're competent enough.

While the wiki doesn't spell it out, contextual clues suggest that if ships can't leave (per the Fleet's stated dominance), sea escape is cut off. And with Amn's capital destroyed, Murann is the next-largest city, a natural magnet for displaced people.

I don't see what's not believable here. What isn't immersive about this? The harshness isn't an oversight; it's deliberate AND fun.

PCs will come and stay. What about the NPC masses?

Getting to Murann (https://discord.com/channels/460557954148597782/1244146240849973339/1356443033213866025) is dangerous, so why would the journey from Murann be any different? The NPC masses, mages, civilians or otherwise, have no choice but to remain. They presumably lack the coin to travel, and don't have the strength that the adventurers and sellswords have to leave. If they've just arrived here, this is probably the only semblance of safety they've felt in a while. They wouldn't be quick to leave again.

 

[KiTTY]

Murann isnt a place people choose; its where theyre trapped. The narrative introduction confirms that while Athkatlas collapse sent refugees fleeing, the Iron Fleets blockade and dangerous overland routes leave Murann as the only viable shelter. Food shortages and xenophobia dont break immersion; they reflect the reality of crisis zones, where desperate people endure oppression because alternatives are worse and likely mean DEATH. Traders stay for wartime profits, mages cling to the Guild for survival, adventurers and sellswords have it reasonably good if theyre competent enough.

Refugees fled primarily north and east. Murann is south, and getting there involves passing overland through Purskul, Imnescar (first to get overrun), the Small Teeth (where the horde originated), and Trademeet, or sea travel. For those from Athkatla, travelling overland or by barge up the Alandor or the Esmel to Crimmor, Purskul, or Esmeltaran would've all been alternatives. Murann is only the choice when you're already in Southern Amn and wanted more protection than Trademeet could offer.

Murann was a prime target when the Winter Horde first began to stir, only they went north first. It still is a prime target, cut off from Northern Amn and with only puny Trademeet as the only buffer overland and completely vulnerable by sea. It is the only viable shelter in Southern Amn, but with its precarious position, you'd expect refugees to swarm the Tethyrian borders either to get elsewhere in Amn or into Tethyr itself.

Food shortages and xenophobia are sensible enough, ignoring the part where Murann is a Selûnite-majority city that rejects the religion's central dogma. The continuing arrival of people from abroad who then stay breaks immersion. They somehow made it in, so why couldn't others make it out?

I dont see whats not believable here. What isnt immersive about this? The harshness isnt an oversight; its deliberate AND fun.

You seem to think I want the setting to be less harsh. I'm not sure where that was said. What I see are plot holes that can be remedied by adding IC positives in other respects, as my first suggestion pointed out. More reasons for mages to actually want to stay here, such as region-specific arcane mysteries to solve or resources to find, won't change the fact that casting a spell in public still means death. Raising the stakes in some way to give churches more of a reason to reluctantly put up with the tyranny could make the setting seem grimmer, not less. The Scar, for instance, is a mystery seemingly unique to the region that would draw foreign interest, but it's not part of the narrative introduction but is instead framed as an issue for the elves. It doesn't have to be turned into something bigger than it is, but other such narrative hooks can exist.

Getting to Murann (https://discord.com/channels/460557954148597782/1244146240849973339/1356443033213866025) is dangerous, so why would the journey from Murann be any different? The NPC masses, mages, civilians or otherwise, have no choice but to remain. They presumably lack the coin to travel, and dont have the strength that the adventurers and sellswords have to leave. If theyve just arrived here, this is probably the only semblance of safety theyve felt in a while. They wouldnt be quick to leave again.

It's been ten months since the clock started ticking in the setting. That's plenty of time for people to start getting antsy again. The Winter Horde has been gathering strength the entire time. Southern Amn is itching to secede or defect to Tethyr. The trading routes are slowly reopening. Foreign imports have somehow been getting in, so there are clearly ways out.