Need more IC positives in the region
- Thread starter KiTTY
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People came in here with genuine concerns and thoughts on things, and you rolled up deciding to be needlessly facetious, combative and just overall conducting yourself in a way that isn't really becoming of someone who's trying to have a genuine discussion on the topic - it says more about you than it does anyone else, here.
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I think this conversation is getting somewhat off-topic so in an attempt to help I'm going to potentially show some ignorance as to the topic:
I thought the reason we couldn't just leave to the north was because we were trapped. Amn is desolate now and fraught with danger. We can't leave the South because the borders are locked, and ships aren't allowed to come and go? I would love more 'carrot' scenarios, but I do think they are going to somewhat boil down to the players more than the world. The downside is that the server is still ramping up, so it may not be long-lived carrots but, as previously mentioned, the Jamboree! There are plenty of bards, and yet I rarely see bards actually performing. I reiterate that I think there is plenty of room for carrots; we just need people to be motivated and driven to create it.
I thought the reason we couldn't just leave to the north was because we were trapped. Amn is desolate now and fraught with danger. We can't leave the South because the borders are locked, and ships aren't allowed to come and go? I would love more 'carrot' scenarios, but I do think they are going to somewhat boil down to the players more than the world. The downside is that the server is still ramping up, so it may not be long-lived carrots but, as previously mentioned, the Jamboree! There are plenty of bards, and yet I rarely see bards actually performing. I reiterate that I think there is plenty of room for carrots; we just need people to be motivated and driven to create it.
This isn't about your character specifically or what motivation you can create for them. It affects them, yes, but it affects the wider NPC population and is ultimately about immersion in this fictional world.
This is a region where a significant portion of the population comes from and continues to come from elsewhere. A hundred thousand people fled Athkatla in anticipation of the Winter Horde, with most going north or east. With the Iron Fleet active in the region, Murann itself could be next. People have plenty of motivation to be fleeing Murann in droves, especially eastward and southward. What keeps people coming and staying, when there's not enough food for everyone, infrastructure is falling apart at the seams, and distrust towards even fellow Amnians but especially foreigners is at an all-time high?
The region remains extremely classist, where anyone not from Amn/Tethyr is a serf, so the few foreign traders that manage to get through to bring much needed trade goods have few rights and are not likely treated well. A foreign trader could facilitate the import of silk, cocoa, steel, etc, get exploited because of their social status, and then not even be allowed to purchase their own wares. Why would they continue to come?
Mages are in a precarious place with far harsher laws, even though the persecution hasn't even properly begun yet. With the Cowled Wizards gone, there's no clear path for mages to gain political power, so almost everyone will stay a pariah. What's keeping mages in Murann and the Alchemists' Guild, when every law-abiding one is already on a government list, and there's pressure for the law to get even harsher? The Guild doesn't seem to need them that much, anyway, with the pivot to science being responsible for its success and doubtless causing friction with its magic wing. How will there believably be any mages left to persecute, by the time the staff is ready to ramp things up with the Palestone Knights?
Clerics and paladins are in an awkward place in that they have higher social status, but attitudes towards and laws on spellcasting mean they suffer similar dangers as mages. It stands to reason that divine spellcasters have made (and will continue to make) mistakes with spellcasting and end up on the chopping block. How many members would churches tolerate losing this way until they consider pulling missions back from the region? There are plenty of other nearby regions that could use the help. Orcish and monstrous hordes are threatening the entire Sword Coast, so the Winter Horde doesn't seem like a uniquely pressing threat to justify putting up with pointless losses.
PCs will come and stay. What about the NPC masses?
On the other hand, let me mention where things I feel are very well-balanced. The Wealdath already has world-level significance to draw in people from all over the Realms. The combination of the Scar, the simmering conflict with humans, the decimated tribes, and existing monstrous threats creates suitably high stakes that would fuel a wide range of reasons to visit without necessarily favouring any alignment. It's still grimdark, in some ways better than Murann and in some ways worse, but the suffering feels like something characters from diverse backgrounds would believably put up with for a long time even by elven standards.
This is a region where a significant portion of the population comes from and continues to come from elsewhere. A hundred thousand people fled Athkatla in anticipation of the Winter Horde, with most going north or east. With the Iron Fleet active in the region, Murann itself could be next. People have plenty of motivation to be fleeing Murann in droves, especially eastward and southward. What keeps people coming and staying, when there's not enough food for everyone, infrastructure is falling apart at the seams, and distrust towards even fellow Amnians but especially foreigners is at an all-time high?
The region remains extremely classist, where anyone not from Amn/Tethyr is a serf, so the few foreign traders that manage to get through to bring much needed trade goods have few rights and are not likely treated well. A foreign trader could facilitate the import of silk, cocoa, steel, etc, get exploited because of their social status, and then not even be allowed to purchase their own wares. Why would they continue to come?
Mages are in a precarious place with far harsher laws, even though the persecution hasn't even properly begun yet. With the Cowled Wizards gone, there's no clear path for mages to gain political power, so almost everyone will stay a pariah. What's keeping mages in Murann and the Alchemists' Guild, when every law-abiding one is already on a government list, and there's pressure for the law to get even harsher? The Guild doesn't seem to need them that much, anyway, with the pivot to science being responsible for its success and doubtless causing friction with its magic wing. How will there believably be any mages left to persecute, by the time the staff is ready to ramp things up with the Palestone Knights?
Clerics and paladins are in an awkward place in that they have higher social status, but attitudes towards and laws on spellcasting mean they suffer similar dangers as mages. It stands to reason that divine spellcasters have made (and will continue to make) mistakes with spellcasting and end up on the chopping block. How many members would churches tolerate losing this way until they consider pulling missions back from the region? There are plenty of other nearby regions that could use the help. Orcish and monstrous hordes are threatening the entire Sword Coast, so the Winter Horde doesn't seem like a uniquely pressing threat to justify putting up with pointless losses.
PCs will come and stay. What about the NPC masses?
On the other hand, let me mention where things I feel are very well-balanced. The Wealdath already has world-level significance to draw in people from all over the Realms. The combination of the Scar, the simmering conflict with humans, the decimated tribes, and existing monstrous threats creates suitably high stakes that would fuel a wide range of reasons to visit without necessarily favouring any alignment. It's still grimdark, in some ways better than Murann and in some ways worse, but the suffering feels like something characters from diverse backgrounds would believably put up with for a long time even by elven standards.
Refugees fled primarily north and east. Murann is south, and getting there involves passing overland through Purskul, Imnescar (first to get overrun), the Small Teeth (where the horde originated), and Trademeet, or sea travel. For those from Athkatla, travelling overland or by barge up the Alandor or the Esmel to Crimmor, Purskul, or Esmeltaran would've all been alternatives. Murann is only the choice when you're already in Southern Amn and wanted more protection than Trademeet could offer.
Murann was a prime target when the Winter Horde first began to stir, only they went north first. It still is a prime target, cut off from Northern Amn and with only puny Trademeet as the only buffer overland and completely vulnerable by sea. It is the only viable shelter in Southern Amn, but with its precarious position, you'd expect refugees to swarm the Tethyrian borders either to get elsewhere in Amn or into Tethyr itself.
Food shortages and xenophobia are sensible enough, ignoring the part where Murann is a Selûnite-majority city that rejects the religion's central dogma. The continuing arrival of people from abroad who then stay breaks immersion. They somehow made it in, so why couldn't others make it out?
You seem to think I want the setting to be less harsh. I'm not sure where that was said. What I see are plot holes that can be remedied by adding IC positives in other respects, as my first suggestion pointed out. More reasons for mages to actually want to stay here, such as region-specific arcane mysteries to solve or resources to find, won't change the fact that casting a spell in public still means death. Raising the stakes in some way to give churches more of a reason to reluctantly put up with the tyranny could make the setting seem grimmer, not less. The Scar, for instance, is a mystery seemingly unique to the region that would draw foreign interest, but it's not part of the narrative introduction but is instead framed as an issue for the elves. It doesn't have to be turned into something bigger than it is, but other such narrative hooks can exist.
It's been ten months since the clock started ticking in the setting. That's plenty of time for people to start getting antsy again. The Winter Horde has been gathering strength the entire time. Southern Amn is itching to secede or defect to Tethyr. The trading routes are slowly reopening. Foreign imports have somehow been getting in, so there are clearly ways out.
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